Please let us know your opinions about the Knowledge Points system in v10.0.07.
1) Please participate in the poll.
2) Please let us know which goal set you selected in the beginning of the game for receiving knowledge points from the goal rewards.
Knowledge Points system in v10.0.07
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Stylesjl
- Community Contributor
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Re: Knowledge Points system in v10.0.07
I have been looking at the different game modes and I have some commentary on the knowledge point levels for each of these game modes.
Assumptions:
- Using a multiplier of 100% (i.e normal levels which can be adjusted up or down in the game settings before starting).
- Using somewhat normal settings like a reasonable number of competitors (some of these modes depend on these).
- No starting points for the human or AI player or starting expertise (for the human).
- No extra goals from scripts or custom settings on startup.
Some of the aspects of my commentary will break down or not make sense if you change the game parameters to relatively extreme levels. For example having a huge number of companies for King of Capitalism (more on this below).
Entrepreneurial Goals
Basic idea is that you start the game with goals to make profit/revenue and launch random products to market (meaning just produce and sell them in any quantity and obtain the reward). Generally appears to be fast paced in design intent (make the product and get the reward right away so you can make another one).
Knowledge points I think are probably too easy to obtain here. Even merely releasing a small handful of products and obtaining small amounts of revenue (start at 1 million) just stacks a lot of knowledge points on the player (cash rewards seems to be balanced though so you can't launch too much stuff without worrying about costs catching up to you).
For example here are how the goals are structured in this mode:
1 million profit. 5 knowledge points.
10 Million revenue. 5 knowledge points.
Launch a single product. 3 knowledge points.
Then
2 million profit. 5 knowledge points.
20 Million revenue. 5 knowledge points.
Launch another product. 3 knowledge points.
Then 4 million profit, 40 million revenue, etc. It does eventually get harder as it doubles each time but still, let's say you have a modest 16 million in profit (25 points), 160 million revenue (20 points) and four products launched (12 points). That's a huge leg up (57 points)!
So maybe curbing the points awarded for revenue/profit, at least on the first few tiers might balance this a lot better (maybe knock them down to 2 points each until 40 million profit and 320 million revenue). Normal points should be awarded once the revenue/profit goals double enough times as it is then legitimately hard to earn them at that point. Product launch rewards are fine as is.
Product Domination Goals
Basic idea is that you start the game with goals to make products within a certain category (like automobiles) and then grab the majority share for all of those products in that category at once (must be #1 in cars and motorcycles in all cities at the same time).
Generally appears to be slow paced and methodical in design intent as it takes a great deal of effort to muscle out your competitors, though the difficulty is highly dependent on how powerful the AI competition is (especially in terms of price aggressiveness).
Generally I think the cash level is okay - you get double the money bonus for one randomly selected category which is a good mechanic (denoted by a $$). It should also double the knowledge points (currently does not do that).
Generally I think the knowledge point level should be higher in general - 10 points I think is inadequate for the difficulty of dominating an entire product category. Or at least at first, there is a tendency for it to snowball, if you dominate every category you will get well over 200+ knowledge points, but that happens late in the game when you are close to winning.
So maybe a better mechanic is that the first categories you dominate you get 20 knowledge points but then it tappers off to 5 points as you dominate more and more categories.
Digital Goals
Goal is to dominate the digital industry, this is a somewhat fast paced set of goals:
If you dominate both OS and 30% of the internet you get a massive 40 points.
These goals should be split: One for OS Dominance, another for 30% of the internet. Each should get 15 points.
15 points for dominating each digital category I think is okay (dominating all digital software gives 90 points, which is reasonable), but there should also be Entrepreneurial goals for digital products added as subgoals. For example --> Launch Music Composer, Launch Word Processor, etc (all of these should be determined randomly like in Entrepreneurial goals). Maybe 2-3 points each. If that latter suggestion is implemented then the domination bonuses should be reduced a bit as well to keep it balanced.
Additionally I think we should have goals for internet companies. Right now it is just 30% of internet revenue. What about dominating Search Engines, Stock Trading, Micro-blogging, etc?
One more thing: Each digital category currently gives personal cash - I think this should be changed to corporate cash and quadrupled in amount (20 million per digital product dominated).
City Goals
This one I think needs a few changes:
City goals should be extended to not just found an existing city but to improve the existing city (or cities) - extra points and cash for reaching population milestones. And a bigger bonus for founding a new city.
King of Capitalism
This one is a bit tricky, given that it depends on how many competitors you have - the more you have the more points you can gain potentially.
In theory you can get 500+ points if you have 50 companies to grab a 50% share in and each goal gives 10 points. Actually it is 20 points. Why?
Because when you get 50%+ shares in a company you get this reward:
10 Knowledge Points
A 10+ bonus in expertise (in a random category)
20 in total. Hence for 50 companies you could have (effectively) up to 1000 points! Enough to fill every category to 100.
My take on this: Get rid of the knowledge points rewards. Just leave the expertise gains. Otherwise it is hugely unbalanced.
Alternative: Scale down rewards if there are a large number of competitors. Maybe 20 points each if there are only 10, but 4 each for 50.
Survival Mode
This is an interesting one since knowledge points probably have the highest value in survival mode. Or at least it seems that way since it can be tough to open new firms due to the difficulty in scaling up the market size. Hence bonuses such as faster training, R&D, etc can be quite important.
The Survival Mode goals are:
Grow the city: Increases city cash and personal cash. Each milestone is 5 points.
Launching products: Adds corporate cash (10 million or 5 million if food related). 3 points.
I think both should be increased a bit.
3 points for a food product launch.
5 points for a non-food product launch (as it requires re-invention).
10 points for each city milestone.
Also for survival mode some additional goals could be added:
- Create Telecom provider - subscribers at least 50% of city population.
- Create Internet Company - subscribers at least 50% of city population.
- Launch Operating System (and other digital software).
- Build a mall.
- Build a Media company.
- Open at least one bank or insurance branch.
Just an idea on making survival mode a bit more goal oriented in terms of 'Build the city up'. Knowledge point rewards could be scaled down for the other goals if implemented.
--
Just my thoughts on these game modes and the knowledge point levels for each.
Assumptions:
- Using a multiplier of 100% (i.e normal levels which can be adjusted up or down in the game settings before starting).
- Using somewhat normal settings like a reasonable number of competitors (some of these modes depend on these).
- No starting points for the human or AI player or starting expertise (for the human).
- No extra goals from scripts or custom settings on startup.
Some of the aspects of my commentary will break down or not make sense if you change the game parameters to relatively extreme levels. For example having a huge number of companies for King of Capitalism (more on this below).
Entrepreneurial Goals
Basic idea is that you start the game with goals to make profit/revenue and launch random products to market (meaning just produce and sell them in any quantity and obtain the reward). Generally appears to be fast paced in design intent (make the product and get the reward right away so you can make another one).
Knowledge points I think are probably too easy to obtain here. Even merely releasing a small handful of products and obtaining small amounts of revenue (start at 1 million) just stacks a lot of knowledge points on the player (cash rewards seems to be balanced though so you can't launch too much stuff without worrying about costs catching up to you).
For example here are how the goals are structured in this mode:
1 million profit. 5 knowledge points.
10 Million revenue. 5 knowledge points.
Launch a single product. 3 knowledge points.
Then
2 million profit. 5 knowledge points.
20 Million revenue. 5 knowledge points.
Launch another product. 3 knowledge points.
Then 4 million profit, 40 million revenue, etc. It does eventually get harder as it doubles each time but still, let's say you have a modest 16 million in profit (25 points), 160 million revenue (20 points) and four products launched (12 points). That's a huge leg up (57 points)!
So maybe curbing the points awarded for revenue/profit, at least on the first few tiers might balance this a lot better (maybe knock them down to 2 points each until 40 million profit and 320 million revenue). Normal points should be awarded once the revenue/profit goals double enough times as it is then legitimately hard to earn them at that point. Product launch rewards are fine as is.
Product Domination Goals
Basic idea is that you start the game with goals to make products within a certain category (like automobiles) and then grab the majority share for all of those products in that category at once (must be #1 in cars and motorcycles in all cities at the same time).
Generally appears to be slow paced and methodical in design intent as it takes a great deal of effort to muscle out your competitors, though the difficulty is highly dependent on how powerful the AI competition is (especially in terms of price aggressiveness).
Generally I think the cash level is okay - you get double the money bonus for one randomly selected category which is a good mechanic (denoted by a $$). It should also double the knowledge points (currently does not do that).
Generally I think the knowledge point level should be higher in general - 10 points I think is inadequate for the difficulty of dominating an entire product category. Or at least at first, there is a tendency for it to snowball, if you dominate every category you will get well over 200+ knowledge points, but that happens late in the game when you are close to winning.
So maybe a better mechanic is that the first categories you dominate you get 20 knowledge points but then it tappers off to 5 points as you dominate more and more categories.
Digital Goals
Goal is to dominate the digital industry, this is a somewhat fast paced set of goals:
If you dominate both OS and 30% of the internet you get a massive 40 points.
These goals should be split: One for OS Dominance, another for 30% of the internet. Each should get 15 points.
15 points for dominating each digital category I think is okay (dominating all digital software gives 90 points, which is reasonable), but there should also be Entrepreneurial goals for digital products added as subgoals. For example --> Launch Music Composer, Launch Word Processor, etc (all of these should be determined randomly like in Entrepreneurial goals). Maybe 2-3 points each. If that latter suggestion is implemented then the domination bonuses should be reduced a bit as well to keep it balanced.
Additionally I think we should have goals for internet companies. Right now it is just 30% of internet revenue. What about dominating Search Engines, Stock Trading, Micro-blogging, etc?
One more thing: Each digital category currently gives personal cash - I think this should be changed to corporate cash and quadrupled in amount (20 million per digital product dominated).
City Goals
This one I think needs a few changes:
City goals should be extended to not just found an existing city but to improve the existing city (or cities) - extra points and cash for reaching population milestones. And a bigger bonus for founding a new city.
King of Capitalism
This one is a bit tricky, given that it depends on how many competitors you have - the more you have the more points you can gain potentially.
In theory you can get 500+ points if you have 50 companies to grab a 50% share in and each goal gives 10 points. Actually it is 20 points. Why?
Because when you get 50%+ shares in a company you get this reward:
10 Knowledge Points
A 10+ bonus in expertise (in a random category)
20 in total. Hence for 50 companies you could have (effectively) up to 1000 points! Enough to fill every category to 100.
My take on this: Get rid of the knowledge points rewards. Just leave the expertise gains. Otherwise it is hugely unbalanced.
Alternative: Scale down rewards if there are a large number of competitors. Maybe 20 points each if there are only 10, but 4 each for 50.
Survival Mode
This is an interesting one since knowledge points probably have the highest value in survival mode. Or at least it seems that way since it can be tough to open new firms due to the difficulty in scaling up the market size. Hence bonuses such as faster training, R&D, etc can be quite important.
The Survival Mode goals are:
Grow the city: Increases city cash and personal cash. Each milestone is 5 points.
Launching products: Adds corporate cash (10 million or 5 million if food related). 3 points.
I think both should be increased a bit.
3 points for a food product launch.
5 points for a non-food product launch (as it requires re-invention).
10 points for each city milestone.
Also for survival mode some additional goals could be added:
- Create Telecom provider - subscribers at least 50% of city population.
- Create Internet Company - subscribers at least 50% of city population.
- Launch Operating System (and other digital software).
- Build a mall.
- Build a Media company.
- Open at least one bank or insurance branch.
Just an idea on making survival mode a bit more goal oriented in terms of 'Build the city up'. Knowledge point rewards could be scaled down for the other goals if implemented.
--
Just my thoughts on these game modes and the knowledge point levels for each.
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David
- Community and Marketing Manager at Enlight
- Posts: 9370
- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:42 pm
- Has thanked: 19 times
- Been thanked: 50 times
Re: Knowledge Points system in v10.0.07
Hi Stylesjl, thank you for your comprehensive analysis and suggestions on the adjusting knowledge point rewards. I forwarded them to the dev team. They found your suggestions very useful and have implemented many of your suggestions. The details of the changes in version 10.0.11 are as follows:
Entrepreneurial Goals
Revenue goal >= $1 billion
>Knowledge point reward = 5 points
>cash reward = revenue target / 20
Revenue goal >= $100 million
>Knowledge point reward = 4 points
>cash reward = revenue target / 10
Revenue goal < $100 million
>Knowledge point reward = 3 points
>cash reward = revenue target / 10
-----------
Profit goal >= $100 million
>Knowledge point reward = 5 points
Profit goal >= $10 million
>Knowledge point reward = 4 points
Profit goal < $10 million
>Knowledge point reward = 3 points
--------------
Product Domination Goals:
Knowledge point reward has been increased from 10 points to 20 points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Goals
The reward for personal cash has been changed to corporate cash and double the cash reward amount.
Software dominance Knowledge point reward has been increased from 15 points to 20 points.
For subgoals, they can be split. But for the main goal, you win the game when you achieve it, so there can be only one main goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
City Goals
The first city will always have city goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
King of Capitalism
Reduced the expertise bonus in a random category from 10 to 5.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Survival Mode
Entrepreneurial Goals
Revenue goal >= $1 billion
>Knowledge point reward = 5 points
>cash reward = revenue target / 20
Revenue goal >= $100 million
>Knowledge point reward = 4 points
>cash reward = revenue target / 10
Revenue goal < $100 million
>Knowledge point reward = 3 points
>cash reward = revenue target / 10
-----------
Profit goal >= $100 million
>Knowledge point reward = 5 points
Profit goal >= $10 million
>Knowledge point reward = 4 points
Profit goal < $10 million
>Knowledge point reward = 3 points
--------------
Product Domination Goals:
Knowledge point reward has been increased from 10 points to 20 points.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Goals
The reward for personal cash has been changed to corporate cash and double the cash reward amount.
Software dominance Knowledge point reward has been increased from 15 points to 20 points.
Actually it is the main goal that consists of two goals - dominate OS and 30% of the internet.If you dominate both OS and 30% of the internet you get a massive 40 points.
These goals should be split: One for OS Dominance, another for 30% of the internet. Each should get 15 points.
For subgoals, they can be split. But for the main goal, you win the game when you achieve it, so there can be only one main goal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
City Goals
The new city goal now gives 20 knowledge points.City goals should be extended to not just found an existing city but to improve the existing city (or cities) - extra points and cash for reaching population milestones. And a bigger bonus for founding a new city.
The first city will always have city goals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
King of Capitalism
Reduced the expertise bonus in a random category from 10 to 5.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Survival Mode
Your suggestions above have been implemented.The Survival Mode goals are:
Grow the city: Increases city cash and personal cash. Each milestone is 5 points.
Launching products: Adds corporate cash (10 million or 5 million if food related). 3 points.
I think both should be increased a bit.
3 points for a food product launch.
5 points for a non-food product launch (as it requires re-invention).
10 points for each city milestone.
The dev team responded they will consider adding these in a future release. If you have further ideas for even more varied goal types for survival mode, please let me knowledge and I will forward them to the dev team as well.- Create Telecom provider - subscribers at least 50% of city population.
- Create Internet Company - subscribers at least 50% of city population.
- Launch Operating System (and other digital software).
- Build a mall.
- Build a Media company.
- Open at least one bank or insurance branch.
Just an idea on making survival mode a bit more goal oriented in terms of 'Build the city up'. Knowledge point rewards could be scaled down for the other goals if implemented.